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A back-to-basics path to empowering your sales team with PitchBook Data’s CSO, Paul Santarelli

July 15, 2024 / 28 min
Transcript

Is your sales team truly set up for success? 

In this episode of Reveal, host Dana Feldman sits down with Paul Santarelli, Chief Sales Officer at PitchBook Data, to discuss his processes for empowering reps and driving real growth.

Throughout the conversation, Paul shares pivotal points in his career journey and how those have informed the way he leads and trains at PitchBook. 

He also discusses the importance of solid processes for frontline managers, practicing proactivity, committing to a habit of hearing, and staying nimble in a fast-paced industry. 

You won’t want to miss it.

A Back-to-Basics Path to Empowering Your Sales Team with PitchBook Data’s CSO, Paul Santarelli

Introduction to Paul Santarelli

Dana Feldman: What do the world’s best CROs have in their playbooks? This is the place to find out. This is Reveal: The Revenue Intelligence Podcast. I’m your host, Dana Feldman. Hi, I’m Dana Feldman, and this is Reveal: The Revenue Intelligence Podcast. Each episode, we’re focused on helping you build the ultimate CRO playbook, and we promise to give you access to the most influential revenue leaders at some of the world’s top companies, so that you too can deliver on your revenue goals.

So in this episode, I’m doing just that. I’m delivering on the promise with my guest, Paul Santarelli, Chief Sales Officer at PitchBook Data. Paul has a very impressive background, having worked for a VC-backed company while still at school and thriving in a pretty dynamic world of startup culture. He’s built his career on a foundation of innovation, entrepreneurship, and a passion for fostering success in others. So Paul, welcome, and thanks for being here.

Paul Santarelli: Thanks for having me.

Dana Feldman: Yep, you are great. This is going to be an awesome episode to do together. Today we’re going to explore a lot around your experience, from the early days of working in a pretty high-growth environment to your current role as Chief Sales Officer. We’ll discuss topics like empowering frontline managers, staying nimble in a fast-paced industry, and obviously envisioning the future of sales and revenue generation. So let’s dive in.

Paul Santarelli: Scary topics.

Dana Feldman: Scary topics. Look, I want to start first just getting the audience a little bit grounded on some of your early experiences: Take me through a little bit about your background and how you ended up working for your first VC-backed company while you were still in school.

Paul’s Early Career Path: From Film to VC-Backed Startups

Paul Santarelli: Sure, happy to. You know, like many people going into undergrad, I had no idea what I really wanted to do. That manifested in pursuing a career in the film industry, which was, needless to say, not an experience I really draw upon anymore. But I did pursue that. I worked in the film industry for a number of years, ultimately not a fulfilling career path for me. So what I realized is it didn’t teach me a whole lot about a whole lot. So I went back to school, pursued an MBA, I did that, my MBA, at Tulane University in New Orleans, and it was in New Orleans that I got my first taste of entrepreneurism and the startup culture. New Orleans at the time, this was a couple years post-Katrina, very much still rebuilding phase. The university has an excellent entrepreneurship program. The MBA program was very involved in getting students connected to the community and connected to anywhere we could help. One of those ways was writing business plans and putting our work out kind of for free and learning that. And through that process, I was able to secure an internship at a venture capital-backed company in New Orleans, a company called The Receivables Exchange. And that was my first taste of like, “What is this world? What is the private capital market world, and what does that mean? How does it fuel innovation? How does it fuel growth?” It was a bug that really never left.

The Fascination with Private Capital Markets

Dana Feldman: I love that, I love that. Talk to me a little bit about just that experience there, but also what aspects of the private capital markets got you? What captured your attention with it all?

Paul Santarelli: Yeah, I mean, I think there are a couple of things: One, it’s a unique thing that if you have a good idea, an idea that has growth potential, there are avenues to make that a reality. And private capital is one of those, right? I mean, you look around, so many parts of our daily lives exist because of venture capital, because of private equity. Gong is venture capital-backed. You look at our tech stack internally at PitchBook, and almost everything we interact with is in some way VC-backed. So I think that that’s amazing, right? It’s a market that creates jobs, it’s a market that fosters innovation. It really pushes people to create something that can grow, that can last. So I think, just on its merits alone, that’s fascinating.

For me personally and individually, also, if you are in an environment, especially a VC-backed environment, there is an expectation for growth, right? And there’s pressure for growth. And when you are in that environment, it does push individuals who are working there to figure out like, “How do we do that? What are the challenges that we can tackle?” And when you’re in a high-growth environment, high-growth opportunities exist. I love just the private capital market universe in general, what it does for the greater macroeconomic world. But as an individual, as someone pursuing a career, being in a high-growth environment I think is really important.

Dana Feldman: I love that, I love that. It’s interesting, because clearly, something about you personally really matched up with that around the grit, and just figuring it out, and finding the solutions to how you’re going to get the growth, too.

Paul Santarelli: Yeah.

Using Solutions Like PitchBook to Understand the Startup Landscape

Dana Feldman: It’s really fascinating. How did your experience with solutions like PitchBook shape your understanding of the startup landscape?

Paul Santarelli: I mean, for listeners who don’t know what PitchBook is, our business is the information collecting data on the private capital markets and the entire ecosystem around the private capital markets. And data is key to everything. And I think we should get into the use of data, especially as we’re talking about the future of revenue later. But data is the key to unlocking a whole lot. And I think it’s a universal thing that every company, anybody who’s operating in the system needs. So having that information and being able to talk about it and being able to discuss how someone might use the information that we have to help further their businesses, to help them win was just great. And PitchBook allows us to do that.

Paul’s Path to Leadership at PitchBook

Dana Feldman: I love it. Okay, so take us through a little bit further: So you started off as an internship with a VC-backed company. Take us through your career a little bit further, because I think you had a path that got you into leadership eventually. So let’s let the listeners kind of learn a little bit more about that.

Paul Santarelli: Sure. I mean, coming out of grad school, I’m a big proponent of the program I had. It’s not a feeder school into the areas that might be traditionally associated with the private capital markets, which is what I wanted to get into. It’s not a feeder into venture capital, or investment banking, or consulting per se. So my path was looking for two things, basically: I wanted the exposure into a high-growth area. I wanted to be part of a business, whether that’s a startup or a company that’s maybe more mature, but still growing, because I knew of the kind of impact that maybe I could have in an environment like that. And I wanted something that was adjacent to this market that was very interesting to me. And I stumbled upon PitchBook just doing research on PE- and VC-backed ecosystems, frankly. PitchBook, at the time, was very much a startup. I think there were maybe 30 or 40 people who worked at the firm at the time. And I pursued a sales role. I pursued a sales role mainly because, much like my previous career, I didn’t really have any skill sets that I could bank on coming out of school.

Dana Feldman: That’s true.

Paul Santarelli: I could probably do sales. Well, I had a sales internship. I didn’t sell anything before. So I did think, at least from a career perspective, I thought that selling into an industry that was very interesting to me was a great way to learn that industry. Like, if you can sell something, you’re going to learn it. So it wasn’t that I was pursuing a career in sales, I was pursuing a career in this is an industry that I want to be a part of and I want to be in a high-growth environment. So I landed at PitchBook as an individual contributor, sales rep, coming out of school with a mountain of debt. So that wasn’t exactly the most fiscally responsible decision I ever made. But PitchBook checked all the boxes that I was looking for. Great environment, great founder, great vision, great product, and an opportunity to at least try my hand at sales. So that was the way in, and I’m happy to go in further.

Moving Up the Ranks at PitchBook

Dana Feldman: I think one of my favorite questions to ask those of us that are in sales is always, “How did you get into sales?” Because it’s very rare anyone really understands how they got here, but then we all love it once we’re here, so it’s pretty funny. So talk to me, you started out as an individual contributor, take us through a little bit of your journey as you changed roles within PitchBook.

Paul Santarelli: Sure. Like I said, we were very, very early days at this point. We’ve grown considerably, but in early days, not everything is figured out. So we had a great product, we had a great vision, we had great data. We didn’t have every process figured out. We didn’t have everything, like onboarding, or training, or anything else. So my experience coming into PitchBook wasn’t much more than, “Here’s a computer, here’s some people who are kind of doing the same job as you. Why don’t you sit down with them and learn what’s up?” So that was great, that worked for me. I learned, I dedicated myself to understanding what was going on.

And then as we started growing or trying to grow, and we’re hiring new people in, the same kind of onboarding that I was okay, I can thrive in is not scalable. So there was no playbooks to say, “This is what you should do.” There was no mentorship, there was no commitment to, “How are we actually going to effectively onboard more and more people?” And again, going back to the benefits of being in a high-growth environment, you kind of look around the room and you think, “Is anyone working on that? Yes, no, no? All right, I’ll do that.” So I just did, right? You start writing down the playbooks a little bit. Like, “This is the process.” We developed a mentorship program to ensure that it wasn’t just, “Hey, here’s some people who know what you’re doing,” but like, “Here is someone who’s dedicated and incentivized to help you onboard.”

We were also at a time where we’re based in Seattle. Seattle, while a healthy VC ecosystem, is not the center of the financial world. So people who we were hiring in don’t just have inherent backgrounds in finance. So we had to do a lot of work not only to teach what our product is and what our business is, but also like, “What is this industry, what market are we serving?” And very few undergraduate programs teaching venture capital and private equity, so then we layer that in. It’s like, “How are we going to teach this? How are we going to scale the idea of you really need to understand the markets in which you play and the clients that you serve? You have to understand what makes them tick, what makes them want to hear what you have to offer.” And if you can’t do that, you’re never going to be able to identify where value can be created. So we had to start teaching that.

Again, you look around the room, “Someone want to work on that?” I’m happy to work on that. So designed out, looking back, was a very rudimentary training program for people, but it evolved over time into something that we as an organization are very, very proud of. We call it PitchBook University, and it’s an entire program. We bring people in with very, very little financial background, and we get them up to speed on some really complex concepts, in a very sophisticated market. And the better we do that, the more connection we can create our employees to understand our market, the better they are at positioning our product as a value add.

The Creation of PitchBook University

Dana Feldman: So PitchBook University was born off of you initially kind of looking around and saying, “Anyone working on building an onboarding program?” and it’s turned into this now, is that right?

Paul Santarelli: Yeah, effectively.

Dana Feldman: Yeah, that’s great.

Paul Santarelli: You can go into a lot of stories about old PitchBook, but there were some other ways in which we were trying to teach people. But yeah, it was about formalizing and ensuring that people are getting the consistent, same kind of information, and we can do that in a repeated fashion, so that we can rely on it working.

Taking Ownership to Drive Career Growth

Dana Feldman: Looking around the room and finding these opportunities to go build something, how did that play out in terms of your career growth at PitchBook?

Paul Santarelli: Yeah, I mean, that was the career growth. You look around the room, that’s an example. My first official management responsibilities were for our SDR team. So our first job, out of college team who’s hitting the phones, calling on leads, trying to create opportunities for sales. And it was the same process. It was group of people, hungry, motivated, with maybe less structure and kind of is really anyone’s job to make sure that they’re successful. And through that onboarding process, where we were bringing in this kind of profile of candidates, I just got very connected to that group, and I went to my boss at the time, at one point I was like, “Do you care if I just start managing this group?” And it was like, “Yeah, sure, okay. You still have your quota to hit, but go ahead, why don’t you take that on?”

Dana Feldman: So you were doing the IC and managing the SDR team at the beginning?

Paul Santarelli: Yeah.

Dana Feldman: My goodness, okay.

Paul Santarelli: I mean, we had goals to hit, right? This was, we financed this business through revenue from even prior to myself joining. So it was never like, “Hey, we got this luxury of private capital backing that we can burn through a lot of cash early.” It was always, “We’re going to make money and we’re going to reinvest that back into the business, so our ability to grow is entirely contingent on our ability to actually sell and create paying clients.” So there was never a moment in time where it was like, “Oh, no, don’t worry about your goals.” We always got to hit our goals, yeah.

Taking Initiative and Asking for Opportunities

Dana Feldman: Right, I’m loving it. There’s two themes that are coming out really strong just in this, Paul: One is finding the gaps in the business that you can go build solutions for, right? That grit. And then two is not waiting for the opportunity to come to you, but you asking. So you looking around and saying, “Is anyone going to take ownership of this SDR team? No? I’m going to go do it.” I think these are two really, really incredible themes that are coming through in your stories, which I love.

Paul Santarelli: And I think that, not to interrupt, but-

Dana Feldman: No, please.

Paul Santarelli: I think that it’s easy to lose that as companies get bigger and bigger. And that’s something that we’ve tried, and I don’t think we do it always as successfully as we can, but trying to just instill that value and that mentality into people now, when we’re thousands of people at PitchBook, because it’s really easy to assume if you’ve got an idea, like, “Someone else is probably working on that,” or, “Someone else probably already had that,” or, “There’s a reason we’re not doing that.” And that’s just, that’s not reality in any environment, let alone a high-growth one. I think it’s really important that you commit to reinforcing that idea, because the feet on the street, boots on the ground are the ones who are going to come up with the best ideas. They’re going to come up with the areas in which we are most likely able to effect growth. So you got to instill that to make sure you’re extracting the good ideas.

Maintaining a Culture of Innovation as the Business Grows

Dana Feldman: What are ways or examples that you do that to try and keep that culture, even here at PitchBook, but just in general, what advice would you give people around that?

Paul Santarelli: I mean, I think it’s hard. I think it’s a muscle, like anything else, you have to practice it. And if you forget about it, it will be forgotten. So I have an incredible leadership team, and I task them, and I hold myself accountable to understanding what is the experience of every single rep? What is the experience of the client? What is the experience of the prospect to ensure like, “Hey, is there a way to do this better?” And I’m not on every call, I haven’t booked a demo in a long time, but understanding what that experience is is really important, and it has to happen at every layer of the business. And then, you have to create forums where it’s okay to express those ideas and get those ideas up. And then, if you can, to the best of your ability, whether you’re going to pursue any of those ideas, explain the why or the why not, as opposed to, “Cool, thanks for the idea. Please go do your job.” It’s, “Cool, thanks for the idea, let’s pursue that,” or, “This is why that might not work,” or, “This is something we’ve tried in the past and maybe we need to tweak it a little bit.” So I think it’s just communication and-

Dana Feldman: I love it.

Paul Santarelli: …again, dedicating yourself to actually doing it.

Dana Feldman: Yeah, I love it. I’m curious, I know one of the things that you’re really passionate about is really kind of the frontline employee, the frontline manager’s experience, right? And so I’d love to know how your experience first as an IC and working your way into leadership actually informed your perspective on how you think about the frontline workers, the frontline managers, frontline individual contributors.

Empowering Frontline Employees and Managers

Paul Santarelli: Yeah, for sure. I mean, the reality is, as incredible products as we have and market opportunity, PitchBook does not sell itself, and very few products on the market sell themselves. So you got to sell, and you need people to do that, and you need real-life interactions between prospect and sales rep or account manager and client in order to continue to create value. So I think that at least appreciating that that reality is how we are going to be successful. There is no success as a business unless we can ensure that every individual contributor who is actually on the phones, in person, talking to our clients and prospects are in themselves in a position to be successful. Nothing else matters. Every great idea in the world doesn’t matter if… How’s the individual contributor? Is it going to be better off or not? Are we going to be better off or not?

So I take that as a philosophy, if you will. I don’t know if that was necessarily crafted because I was an individual contributor, but it certainly helps. And I don’t think, as a sales leader, that you can’t be just as successful if you’ve never actually done that job, but you got to appreciate it, and you have to put the time in to really understand. And countless examples over our years, and we’ve made many mistakes, to be sure, is if you just miss on that, then it’s never going to work out, if you don’t actually understand what’s happening. And I’ve missed on that, and I am in no way great all the time, by any stretch, but at least we’re thinking about it and trying to instill that philosophy all the way through the chain.

Staying Committed to Hearing Feedback

Dana Feldman: Something that you said to me that I have really been just marinating in for the last few weeks, and it was a really powerful statement, as you said, you have to be committed to hear the information. And so I’d love for you just to share a little bit more about what you mean by that, and then how you’re living that at PitchBook as a leader. I think it’s really, really powerful.

Paul Santarelli: Yeah, I mean, I appreciate that that stuck. What we’re talking about is that reality for a rep, it might not be as rosy as you think, right? And it’s actually scary to ask the question, sometimes. And it’s scary as a manager to even listen to a Gong call. It’s like, “Oh, my gosh. Shoot, my rep’s not as good as I think they are, right?” It can be actually terrifying, but that is their reality, and that is the reality of your prospects, of your clients, and you got to listen to it, you got to hear it, and you have to appreciate, it’s like, “Why is that? Why is that rep not where they should be? What is going on that has put that rep in a position where they didn’t handle that call very well, or they absolutely crushed that call, and how do we replicate that?” And if you’re just living too high up in the clouds or whatever cliché saying I can come up with there, is then you’re just going to miss things, right, and you’re going to assume things that are happening that aren’t actually happening.

And it is so, so easy, and I have absolutely experienced that in my time here, that you just assume it’s happening and you assume that other people are also doing that, because you hope that you’ve instilled that, but you just miss, right? And behaviors are learned from above. If I’m not doing it, then no one else is going to be doing it, or no one else is going to necessarily feel like it is the primary responsibility. So I’ve certainly missed on that. I commit myself to continuing to listen. Personally, I sit, my desk is within our SDR pod here in Seattle, so I hear a lot of calls, which is-

Dana Feldman: I love that, I love that.

Paul Santarelli: … fantastic. I don’t know if the SDRs love that I sit there, but I love it. So you just hear things, right? And you ask questions, and you sit with managers, and you just ask the question, “What is going on? What’s happening?” Because otherwise, there’s nothing I can help with.

Dana Feldman: Yeah, I was going to ask you, what are ways that you do stay committed to hearing the information, or what are things that you have tried to make sure that your leaders, your team are staying committed to hearing information? Anything you want to share with the listeners around this?

Fostering Open Communication

Paul Santarelli: Well, this isn’t rocket science, right? Just do the meetings. You’re never too busy to do the meetings, you’re never too busy to sit with someone. We’re very committed to an office-based culture, so I’m here, all my reps are here, all the managers are here. So you’re also just wandering around the kitchen, and people are eating lunch together. It’s easy to ask, “How are you doing?” and if you’re genuine, and authentic, and wanting to know what’s going on, people will hopefully open up to you and give you things that might turn into action. So again, it’s not like, “Oh, I’ve got this playbook for how to listen.” It’s like, “Just do the meetings, just talk to people.”

Dana Feldman: Yeah. Make the connection, right?

Paul Santarelli: Make yourself accessible as best you can.

Embracing Change and Agility in a High-Growth Environment

Dana Feldman: Okay, I love that. Let’s talk just a little bit about how do you approach embracing just the change and the agility that’s happening in all of our worlds, but just in a fast-growing environment? How do you embrace that? How do you approach it?

Paul Santarelli: It’s hard. There is a lot of change, and I think that especially on the technological front, there’s so many new tools and new software, and you bring in the AI component and it’s like, “Oh, my Lord, what is happening?” The one thing that has not changed that is to buy something, especially enterprise software, which we try to sell, is you have to talk human to human about what their problems are, and all the technology, and all the change. I look at that mostly from a, “How do we make our reps’ jobs more efficient? How can we make their lives easier? How can we get them closer to having real-life conversations with real people about what value we can provide for their firms?”

So I think, personally, it’s easy to get caught up in like, “Oh, we can do all these different things. It’s going to change the way we sell.” It’s like, “Not really,” right? You sell-

Dana Feldman: Human to human.

Paul Santarelli: …by talking to someone, finding out what their problems are, and seeing if we have a solution that can help. Now, if there are ways that we can change how we get people into our funnel, or how we create more of those conversations, or help give insight to reps to understand more about their prospects or their clients, absolutely. But it doesn’t fundamentally change what has to happen in order for someone to write a check.

The Role of AI in Sales

Dana Feldman: Yeah. Well, it’s interesting, you just brought in to the conversation AI, so I’ve got to ask-

Paul Santarelli: I wish I hadn’t.

Dana Feldman: I just got to ask, though, it’s facing everyone, but how are you thinking about it? What do you think of AI? What are you most excited about with it in terms of how it can help y’all?

Paul Santarelli: Yeah, I mean, I think it’s so many applications. For us, we’re a data company, so there’s certainly a layer of information that we have that we can build models around that will help us understand the right kind of client profile, or where there are risks, or where there’s opportunities within our client base, or within our prospect base. I certainly think, from a gen AI standpoint, there’s a lot of emails that we write that, frankly, ChatGPT is pretty good at writing an email. It doesn’t replace the human to human. You got to pick up the phone and actually talk to someone. So I think it’s the areas in which, again, just make the rep more efficient. The areas in which reps just sit there doing the busy work, if you will. Like, “Oh, I got to get all this information into Salesforce,” or, “Oh, I got to write this email and tweak a couple of words so that it looks good,” but AI can help immensely in that place.

I look at it very much from an efficiency of a rep, “How can we get them better insight into their prospects, in their funnel? How can we help them just do more?” But ultimately, it doesn’t replace the sale, and I think that that’s an area that’s really easy to get caught up on. Maybe I’m just old school, but it’s not going to replace.

Dana Feldman: No, I hear you.

Paul Santarelli: No one buys PitchBook over email, no one buys PitchBook without talking to someone.

Dana Feldman: It would be amazing, wouldn’t it, if that was the sales cycle?

Paul Santarelli: It would. I wouldn’t have a job, but…

The Future of Sales and Revenue

Dana Feldman: Okay, so let’s talk a little bit just about the future of sales and revenue: What are some of the big plays that you’re the most excited about?

Paul Santarelli: The future in sales and revenue, and what are the big plays? I mean, I think we just hit on some of that like it is.

Dana Feldman: Yeah, yeah.

Paul Santarelli: I do think Gong is an incredible tool, we love it. Not to be a commercial for you right now, but there are a lot of products on the market that are trying to tackle different things. It’s hard for me as a leader, it’s hard for our revenue operations teams to think about all that’s available and really understand what is going to be our stack, right? What’s going to fit into our flows or what best practices could we be taking from other firms or other companies that just make us better? And I don’t think more is the answer. I look at our stack right now and I’m like, “Oh, we have this for that, and this for that, and this for that.” And it’s like, “Are we using any of these to their actual capacity or capability?” So I think that’s getting really smart about, not necessarily back to basics, but what are you trying to do as a sales team? What are you trying to do? What experience do you want to create for your prospects and for your clients? Start there, and make sure then that all of this other information and all this other stuff that you can bring into the firm fits that. But if you don’t know who you are, or what you want to be, or the experience you want to create, then it’s really easy to be like, “Oh, we’re going to bring in X, Y, Z software because they do this. Awesome.” It’s like, yeah, but that’s not in our values. That’s not our experience that we want.

So I think it’s hard, and I think you got to commit to know who you are and then craft the experience, the tech stack, the use of AI, whatever that might be into that. But you have to have a North Star.

Dana Feldman: Yeah, and I think too, crafting from the experience of the client, I always like to try and think of both clients: The client in terms of who buys from us, but also the client, which is your team, and their experience, right?

Paul Santarelli: 100%, 100%, yeah.

Dana Feldman: Which is so interesting.

Paul Santarelli: We have many stakeholders, but again, and I mentioned that earlier, ultimately, the experience of our rep will translate to the experience of our clients and our prospects.

Dana Feldman: That’s right.

Paul Santarelli: And hopefully, it’s a positive one.

Paul’s Hot Take on Work-From-Home and Sales Culture

Dana Feldman: Okay. Well, I’ve loved this convo, but before we wrap today, I’d love for you to answer a last question as succinctly as possible, okay? As a revenue sales leader, what is your unfiltered hot take, it can be controversial as well, on something you’re seeing in revenue teams right now? What’s a hot take that you have?

Paul Santarelli: Okay.

Dana Feldman: Go hot.

Paul Santarelli: I think that work from home is going to destroy sales culture, and I think that that is a very real thing that I’m seeing. We see it with candidates, we see it with folks where if you look at what it actually takes in a guy, I’m like a broken record on this human to human interaction, it’s a muscle, right? There is muscle when it comes to having a professional, adult conversation with another human about value that you might want to create for them, and you have to practice that muscle, and you practice that muscle by being around people, by people pushing you, by hearing what others are saying, so that you can actually learn. I am very proud of our learning and development programs here at PitchBook, but the collective knowledge of our team is still the most valuable resource we have. And you can’t get that if you’re sitting in your bedroom. So you have to practice that muscle, you have to be around other people in order to do that, because you can book demos over email. You can do a whole lot of the sales process over email. You’re going to sell something by talking to someone, and you have to practice that muscle, and you cannot do it over Zoom. I am very, very committed to creating that culture, and I think that over time, you’re going to see like, “Oh, man, we’ve just got a generation of, especially early in career folks who are going to miss out on some really key development in those professional muscles.”

Dana Feldman: And I think too, along with just the tribal knowledge, learning from each other, there’s also a lot to be said around the energy that you, and the office, and the group brings to you, as you’re early in your career selling, even on the hard days of selling, right? But being around everyone, it’s so important as well.

Paul Santarelli: Totally agree.

Dana Feldman: Yeah.

Paul Santarelli: There’s also something about waking up, taking a shower, having to commute, putting a collared shirt on-

Dana Feldman: Getting out of your workout clothes.

Dana Feldman: It’s so true. “Look good, feel good,” right, they say?

Paul Santarelli: Yeah.

Dana Feldman: Well, Paul, thank you. Well, with that, we’ll close out this episode. I really appreciate you joining us and the partnership between us. Thanks so much for joining us for this episode. Follow Gong on LinkedIn for our tactical takeaways from this conversation, including the best plays to add to your playbook. And be sure to follow the show to never miss an episode.

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Kelly Services’ Hugo Malan on data-driven leadership and metrics that matter